Nutrition For All Stages Of Life
Our wonderful client, Abbey, along with her coach Manders, stop by to talk about her nutrition journey. Abby is a therapist and has been planning on becoming a mother, so she tasked us with the ambitious goal of getting her nutrition locked down so she be in the best position possible for when that time came. We talk about eating through every season of life and how to take challenges head on.
TRANSCRIPT
[INTRO MUSIC]
RYAN:
Hi, Friends. Welcome to BIN Radio. My name is Ryan. I’m hanging out here with Acacia, as always. Acacia, how are you?
ACACIA:
Doing all right. Well, I’m a little stuffy sniffly today. So excuse my voice, but I’m fine.
RYAN:
Spring time allergy season. And joining us today is a special guest, Abby. Abby is one of our clients She’s specifically a client
of Manders, who is also here. But Manders and Abby. How are both of you?
ABBEY:
Good, good.
RYAN:
We got the thumbs up from Manders.
MANDERS:
I wanted to let her talk first.
RYAN:
OK. Abby, welcome. We are going to have a little conversation. And we are we are all here today to celebrate you. I know
Manders wanted to have you on to talk about your journey. If you feel like it, you can give everybody a quick little 30 second
bio. Tell us a little about yourself. Introduce yourself to our little world.
ABBEY:
Yeah! So, I’m a therapist and coach, and I have my own private practice in New Jersey, and it’s still really cold here. So Man-
ners is probably tired of me complaining about the weather. And she’s like, go for a walk. I’m like, it’s cold. I don’t want to!
I started with Manders because I had like a goal in mind, and I don’t even think I told her first, but my whole goal was to be-
come a mom. And I wanted to get really healthy for that. And I’ve been following Black Iron for a while, with like the training
stuff. And I saw the nutrition and it just kind of felt like a good fit. And here we are. She’s stuck with me.
MANDERS:
It’s been so fun, though! We’ve had such a good journey so far together. That’s just been, from my perspective, I’m sure peo-
ple who maybe are listening to this podcast who have me as their coach, like, I really love when my clients are comfortable
enough to talk with me about things. It just makes me feel like I know them a little bit more.
And, you know, of course, obviously our primary goal is talk about nutrition, of course. But, you know, I’ve worked with Abby
for so long that I see her go through so many different things and different stages of her life that it’s just a really cool expe-
rience to have that bond together. Much like I’m sure she experiences with some of her own clients, you know?
So I just thought it would be really great to get her perspective on things and kind of share what we’ve worked on together.
RYAN:
How long have you been working together?
ABBEY:
Since the summertime? Like a little bit as the summer started. I want to say maybe even before that.
MANDERS:
I think it was yeah, I want to say it was spring.
ABBEY:
Yeah.
RYAN:
It’s coming up on about a year-ish, huh?
ABBEY:
Yeah. We’ll have to celebrate a year.
MANDERS:
Yeah. That’s so exciting!
ABBEY:
Look at the date.
But yeah. I first thought I was like, well, I want to get in shape and I used to race paddle boards with stand up and prone,
and I wanted to get kind of back into that. I was starting open water swimming, and I just wanted to be healthy to do that
with also the goal of knowing that I was going to, you know, try and become a mom. So, you know, Manders helped me
through a couple different stages of my life all within a year.
MANDERS:
It’s true. It has been quite a journey!
ABBEY:
Yeah!
RYAN:
You you wanted to get pregnant? Have have you been pregnant? Have you had a child?
ABBEY:
I am currently 16 weeks pregnant. Yeah. This is my first. I went through IVF because I’m a single mom and I’m 41-I just
turned 41 in January- and I really have always wanted to have kids of my own and life just kind of ended me still being
single, not finding the right person. And I was like, I can’t wait any longer. And I just dove in and was like, I’m going to go
through IVF and you know, fingers crossed. I had like an 11% success rate- chance of getting pregnant and it worked on the
first try, so.
ACACIA:
Wow, meant to be!
ABBEY:
It was meant to be. And it was like as much as you read stuff and try and prepare for it, you don’t really know how the
medications are going to work. And I think Manders, you know some people that had gone through it, so it was kind of like,
I don’t know, the universe threw us together because I would like say things like I was like, you know, taking the different
medications, “Oh, my body’s doing this,” and she’s like, “I know what that is,” you know? And it was, it was really helpful.
And I think even like the app-and I’ve tracked my weight and I’ve tracked my measurements like my whole life off and on- I
really like the app because I can kind of see the numbers and go, “Oh. Well, you went out last night,” so you automatically,
even if you eat a salad, you automatically put on like 3 lbs the next day. And I wouldn’t stress. Like the scale was just like a
data point, like not, “Oh, shit,” and freak out like I would have ten years ago. But during the IVF process, there were times
where during the one stage where you prep for retrieval, I put on 10 lbs in a week and that was just from the medication
and bloating, all that fun stuff.
So it was good because I was like, “Ahhh!” messaging Manders and I’m like, “I can see I put on 10 lbs, but I think it’s the
medication?” and she’s just like, “Yeah, it is. Like your food, your nutrition looks good.” Yeah, it is. Yeah.
MANDERS:
Mm hmm. One of my very, very close friends, I’ve known her since I was like 17. She went through the entire process of IVF
and we had talked basically the entire- literally every day throughout that process. And I’ve had a couple of clients as well
go through IVF. Obviously for disclaimer purposes, I am not a doctor and not qualified to try and or diagnose anyone going
through IVF.
However, that doesn’t mean that you cannot track macros or pay attention to your food while you’re doing IVF. Like that’s
not- you don’t have to do one or the other, unless obviously specified by your doctor. But anyways, she just kind of really
like went through the experience and she shared every single thing with me about it. And of course, you know, I’m just
very inquisitive, I guess. And so I was asking a lot of questions throughout her process. Things that, you know, are like just
within herself, but also it’s kind of like a generalized experience for people who are going through the retrieval process, the
medications, the hormones, all that stuff. I don’t think a lot of people realize how much you actually have to take before the
retrieval.
So it was just kind of cool to be able to be like, yeah, you know, like I have a very close friend that I also saw her go through
this and, you know, it was just, I think also probably comforting for Abbey, too, because I would be like, you know, “Oh, that’s
what she said happened to her.” And it was super normal. Obviously, that’s not like the gold standard, but you know what I
mean? Like, it was just nice to feel related to somebody.
ACACIA:
To have that support.
ABBEY:
Mm hmm. Yeah. And that’s like part of it is really having that support and I’ve met with so many nutrition people and I went
and studied NTP too, like years ago, and you know it for yourself. And for me, I never- I dabbled in it for a little bit, but you
know, having someone else support you outside of you, I think even if- like therapists need therapists, nutrition coaches
need nutrition coaches.
And I think being someone who’s always had their weight fluctuate, also getting pregnant and worrying about that fear, like,
“Oh my god, I’m going to have to step on a scale at a doctor’s appointment.” And even now, I ended up having to go to the
doctor yesterday. And I’m like, I don’t mind stepping on the scale, but I’m more worried about the doctors judging my weight
versus me. Like, I’m fine with it. I mean, sometimes I’m like, “Manders, am I good?” and she’s like, “You’re good! You’re right
on track, everything’s looking good.”
And it’s really been a nice experience. And I think people don’t think about that. Like, you know, I wonder how many people
get pregnant and they stop looking at their nutrition. And it’s not really about that, it’s just about being healthy or having
someone kind of say, yeah, OK, I don’t want to eat chicken right now. What else can I eat? You know? And I’m not reaching
for the snackie snacks.
ACACIA:
And everyone’s pregnancies are so, so different. I mean, I’ve never been pregnant, but I’ve watched clients, friends, all that
kind of stuff. And it’s all unique. That’s one huge advantage to having a coach and working with a coach throughout that is
because, generally speaking, a coach will have experience working with working with women who have experienced this and
go through the different experiences themselves and can help you develop that toolbox. If you do experience really bad food
versions or whatever it may be.
MANDERS:
Do you feel like, Abby, with going through everything with your individual journey with IVF, do you feel like you gained a new
understanding or relationship with food? Or how has that changed for you having a nutrition coach throughout this? Like,
was that something that you expected, or you know what I mean?
ABBEY:
I wasn’t expecting, you know, I adore you, but there was at one point I was like, “Wow, like I could save money a little bit and
I can do this on my own.” But then I’m like, “No, it’s... it’s just nice. The value’s there.” Like, please don’t charge me more, but
you could charge me more. Don’t bill me more! But [laughter] I’m kidding.
But it’s so helpful to have that accountability and kind of- you’re in the back of my head sometimes about choices and also
there’s no shame there, you know?
MANDERS:
Never.
ABBEY:
And I’ve had people be like, “Oh, you shouldn’t have have that.” And you’re like, “No, if you want it, have it.” And so I have
it in moderation. And I feel more- it’s crazy because I know we first worked together I was changing my body composition
beginning and then got pregnant, and I feel so much more confident in my food choices for the first time in my life.
I think it’s funny because I messaged you one day and I was like, “I’m craving Honey Nut Cheerios.”
MANDERS:
Oh, yeah!
ABBEY:
So I ended up buying them, but I’m the person that would have eaten the whole box in like the day. And it’s still there. And
I’ve only had a little bit and I sleep it out. And it sits on top of my fridge. I stare at it every time I go to my fridge, and I just
feel really good. Oddly enough, my relationship with food has gotten better, and I feel better about it and I feel good about
the choices that I’m making.
RYAN:
Did you have a moment that sticks out in your head where you realized like, “Oh, I’ve made all this growth,” or it was it just
sort of a gradual thing?
ABBEY:
I think there’s been a couple of moments where I’m eating something and I’m like, I don’t have to- I’m enjoying this, but I
don’t need to eat more of it. Because I’m someone who, you know, I’m like, “Oh, this ice cream is really good. I just want
more.” And now I can just stop and go, “No, I’m good.”
And especially when you think pregnancy, you think of crazy food cravings. I haven’t had maybe a whole lot of them. I’ve had
as many as I expected. Like, you hear crazy stories. I was super hungry, first trimester, just ravenous all the time, but there’s
just been a couple moments. Like, Honey Nut Cheerios moment sticks out for me. And a couple other moments that I’m like,
OK, I’m not like bingeing that or eating mindlessly, or, you know, just eating to eat. It just has kind of clicked.
MANDERS:
Like you said, having the person that’s supporting you also not being a restrictive person and/or not making you feel guilty
for those choices is really helpful. Like you said, nutrition coaches need coaches. And I have Nicole is my coach and I really
like that she is someone that’s like, “OK, you shouldn’t be eating this. You shouldn’t be doing that.”
The are the opposing side to that is that you have somebody who is supporting you and also open to you honoring those
cravings when you have them. So it doesn’t feel like it’s such a guilty thing. Because, you know, we’ve talked about this
in the podcast before, when you get into those cycles of restriction, that’s honestly what makes wanting that thing even
worse, or more desired.
So having somebody in your corner where it may just seem on your end like I’m just saying, “Yeah just go eat the Cheerios,”
but really it’s coming from a place of me not wanting you to feel guilty for what you’re choosing or what your desires are.
ACACIA:
And that’s such a huge part of what we try to preach here, right?
MANDERS:
Exactly.
ACACIA:
Is that balance. Like, it’s OK Like last night, I wanted some fricking M&Ms, so I said I’m going to have some M&Ms. Did I eat
the entire bag? No, because I know that I could have some more today if I want.
ABBEY:
And as a therapist, too, and knowing like the questions like, “I know why I’m eating something,” but to have the conversation
with someone else who is my nutrition coach, it’s different.
So when you would push back and sometimes ask questions like, “Well, why did you make that choice?” I mean, you would
say it in a different way, but kind of like probe a little bit like, “Well, what was going on?” And as much as I would always
keep my own journal and things like that, this just brought it all together, too.
I think the check in every week, having the app to update and then talking with you and having you saying, “Oh, here are
the patterns,” kind of. And, “Here’s what’s triggering that.” And OK, by Friday I have the same kind of pattern that I’m like,
“Fuck it. I don’t want to eat any of these things. I’m going and getting my Mexican food.” And that place is finally open again,
so I’m having it on Friday, just so you know.
MANDERS:
Thanks for the update!
ABBEY:
But I feel like I’m accepting of it where I know how my body is going to be a little bit different Saturday morning when I
wake up after I have something, and it’s just like more awareness and you can make better choices as you go along.
MANDERS:
Yeah, absolutely. That’s just something that I think also comes with experience too, in the sense of tracking. You stop be-
coming (or at least you should stop becoming) so obsessed with, “Oh, you know, I’m going to eat this and it’s going to make
my weight go to this.” And it’s like, no, let’s kind of just look at it like: OK, you might eat something higher in sodium, it’s not
that you’re gaining weight, it’s just that you’re retaining a little bit more water or maybe you’re not as dehydrated as you
usually are when you weigh yourself in the morning. There’s just so many aspects to it that I think once you’ve been doing
it for long enough and you can see the data and you can see your trends and all that stuff, like you were saying, it’s just so
much easier to digest.
And I think personally clients feel more successful when they’re able to look at it like objectively like that instead of just
being like, oh my gosh, my weight is up from this. And it’s like, not really.
Yeah.
ACACIA:
Well, and also, did you weigh yourself once this week?
MANDERS:
Right.
ACACIA:
And you went out last night or has this been a consistent trend? Or whatever it is and asking those questions that they may
not ask themselves or know to?
RYAN:
Is it fun being on the receiving end of insight and kind of it’s almost like we do therapy sometimes ourselves. Is it fun, as a
therapist, being on the receiving end of that?
ABBEY:
Yeah, it’s nice. It’s really nice to have that support. And it’s hard, I think you’re a little- your expectations of support kind of
go up too and like it’s nice to have someone else just checking in with you each week and really cares and is excited for you
when you have wins and you can tell it’s genuine.
So I think that’s it’s really important and I think that’s the biggest piece is finding someone that you feel really connected
with- the same with therapy. And, you know, just feeling like, “OK, Manders gets me somehow.” We’ve never met in person,
right? But you just kind of get what I’m saying and it just feels good.
So, you kind of look forward to those check ins where- honestly, other times I used to be like “Ooh, I don’t want to check in,”
and you didn’t feel like you could be honest and that relationship building happened. I feel like it happened naturally, like I
felt I could trust Manders and kind of make those decisions.
And it’s nice to have someone else’s perspective. I welcome that. I know even with clients of mine in therapy, when they’re
not ready to hear that, they’re not ready to hear that. And that’s OK, too. The biggest part is that relationship and trusting
the person. And yeah, this was a really hard process. And to have someone else in my corner was great. I can’t even say
enough about it. I’ll get emotional, but it’s been like really nice to have. Like all right, well, now what’s next? You know?
MANDERS:
Don’t leave me!
ABBEY:
I know, I’m like, “Don’t go anywhere. Don’t quit!” or “I need you!”
It’s just so nice that I can’t even come up with the words. Sorry. I just can’t. It’s nice to have someone in your corner, you
know, and a support system.
MANDERS:
That’s so nice! I really love that.
ACACIA:
You know, we love when the feels come out that.
MANDERS:
You know, just from a coaching perspective, sometimes I’m sure you can relate to this, Acacia. I feel like sometimes I’m like,
“Oh, my gosh, am I even doing this right? Am I a good enough coach? Am I being there for them in the way that they need
me to be?” Like, I always second guess myself, you know?
So sometimes it’s just nice to hear like, “Hey, I really love having you as a coach,” and I’m like, “[mimicking crying] Oh, my
god, thanks so much!”
[laughter]
ACACIA:
It is nice.
MANDERS:
I know. It is.
ACACIA:
It really is. Because like, we can often get into that mindset, that imposter imposter syndrome or just being like, am I giving
you enough or am I giving you what you need?
MANDERS:
Exactly.
ACACIA:
And that’s one of the things why it’s so important to be honest with your coach and to communicate those things. And if
you’re having a really hard week and it’s hard to be honest in your check in, say that. You know, “I’m having a hard time
being honest,” or, “I’m really busy this week. And I just I didn’t submit my check in, but I want to be held accountable for
that,” and voicing that because we can’t read your mind.
RYAN:
I think also important- Abbey, you touched on that- when people aren’t ready to hear something, I think everybody’s got
their journey and there are times where, yeah, you got to build up that trust, and that’s our job to do. And then you’ll be
rewarded with honesty and vulnerability.
And that’s the only way you can really grow and get insights about yourself because you can’t be objective towards yourself.
And it’s nice to have somebody, even for all of us, I know literally every single one of us has had a moment where we’ve all
put each other in check with our with our nutrition and stuff. Emi did that to me this week. I’ve been I was sick for like two
weeks and she’s like, OK, so just chill out. Don’t worry about it. It’s like, oh, yeah.
MANDERS:
Oh, yeah. I forgot I could do that.
RYAN:
Yeah!
MANDERS:
Yeah. Isn’t it funny how we just sometimes get so caught up in everything that we’re doing wrong that we don’t even give
ourselves any grace to just chill out and do something not wrong in our minds, you know? I do that at least. Go down that
spiral of like, oh my gosh, I’m doing everything wrong. Forget it. I’m just going to do everything wrong forever!
RYAN:
Sometimes you got to let it out like that and then pull yourself back from there.
MANDERS:
Mm hmm. Yeah, absolutely.
Abbey, what do you feel like is something that you value in a nutrition coach as a client? It doesn’t have to be me, just in
general.
ABBEY:
I think, for me, there’s this balance where there are times where, you can address me (or the client) what they’re doing, like
a behavior, and also kind of sandwiching it with something kind of positive. Like, I keep seeing you’re doing this one thing,
but here’s something kind of good that you’ve done.
And I think there’s been times where you’ve done that with me, or if I’m being really hard on myself, you point out something
that I was doing well. And I think the other thing was really kind of easing in. Because we were counting the macros, but not
as much right now. We’re just focusing on really my protein.
And there’s been like an ebb and flow with it. And you weren’t like, here’s your prescribed macros or whatever, and you have
to stick to it. But you were open to me saying, “That doesn’t feel so great,” or, “I’m really having a hard time hitting that.
Can we adjust it a little bit?”
And you were kind of like, we’re going to adjust it more. Like I see the progression. We’re going to kind of get a feel for it.
You explained why you were doing X, Y and Z, you know, changing whatever.
MANDERS:
Yeah, yeah. I think having a coach that is able to explain to you why they’re doing something is helpful. Just like for me, if
I’m the client, I really like that. I mean, I like that from doctors. I like that kind of stuff too, when they’re able to tell, OK,
now I’m going to do this. This is what you should expect, like here’s our plan.
I just think it’s comforting for the client because then they are being taken as like, OK, this is MY journey. This is what my
coach wants for me. And like, that’s one thing that I think, you know, not to toot Black Iron’s horn or anything but I feel like
that’s what we do really well. It’s not just like, “OK, here’s your macros, see ya later!” Like, it’s about your individual expe-
rience and like, OK, if that’s not working for you, like let’s try something else. Let’s, let’s do ranges, let’s focus on protein.
Let’s, I don’t know, there’s just a lot of different ways that you can go about doing something and it doesn’t have to be so
black and white. And like having a coach that’s willing and able to explore different options with you is, I think, really, really
beneficial.
ACACIA:
Oh, 100%. And you know, we don’t know everything, and that’s what the other side of it is. Each client is a new journey of
that. And that relationship can be so incredibly beneficial if you can reach that trust level and get to that relationship like
the two of you have experienced.
ABBEY:
And the thing is it makes it easier to trust your coach when they’re explaining something. I mean, some people might not
like their doctors explaining anything and I’m like, if you don’t explain it, I’m going to go Google it and probably get the
wrong information. Tell me the plan. Where are we going?
And I think that was that was always good. I felt like, Manders, you had this big picture plan for me, and you broke it down
into smaller steps, which felt manageable and doable each week. And even if there was no- I don’t feel like she’s going to
smack me on the hand when I turned in my check in and she’s like, “No? OK, that wasn’t working for you. Let’s figure out
what we can make work for you to get you on that continual path to get you where you want to be.” That was helpful.
MANDERS:
That’s rad. I’m glad to hear that. And also like and your case with pregnancy, I’m not a pregnancy expert. I’ve never been
pregnant. Pregnancy is not my like forte, obviously. But the underlying principles still apply for what a client should need to
be successful, i.e., explaining and building their relationship and setting goals, breaking them down into smaller steps. Just
because you’re pregnant- I mean, obviously we have a great pregnancy and postpartum program- but just because you’re
pregnant doesn’t mean that suddenly you’re uncoachable and we need to just forget everything.
And I’ve had tons of pregnant clients over the years. Of course, you know, I like when they do pregnancy and postpartum
because I think it’s a lot of really good things in there, but it doesn't mean mean that you can’t still focus on your protein
or just doing things that you enjoy and listening to these changes as they’re happening because that was something that I
know you experienced in the very beginning, too. These differing things that you were just like, "Oh my gosh, what's happen-
ing?" Like, I didn’t expect this. And I’m like, "No, it’s OK! It's fine!" I don’t need to ever be pregnant to be able to be support-
ive for you in that way.
So I’m just glad that you think it’s helpful I feel like I’m useful for once!
ABBEY: Oh, you are.
MANDERS:
Oh my gosh, thanks!
And plus, you're a therapist, which is also funny because when I start doing funny things in my check in responses, I’m like
making fun of myself, you're like "Stop self-depreciating."
[laughter]
She’s like, "Set those boundaries, girl!"
ABBEY:
There are times when go, "Take that vacation and don’t check your email!"
MANDERS:
Oh, so funny.
ABBEY:
And then, of course, the therapist in me is like, I don’t want to overstep boundaries in our relationship, but we could go to
Florida, and don’t check my check in because I want you to enjoy yourself. And you’re like, "No, it’s good. I'm fine!"
ACACIA:
That’s so cute. Vacation is a scary word for us, OK?
ABBEY:
I know! It’s taken me- I’m 41- It’s taken me until like about this to be like, "OK," and every time I’m like, "Am I sure?" I take
vacations where I have no internet access is what I’ve done. It really helps. Could you do it, Manders?
MANDERS:
Oh, I don’t think so.
[laughter]
OK, do you remember, Acacia, when we got that derecho here and it was like a hurricane here in Iowa?
ACACIA:
[laughing] Yes!
MANDERS:
So I was like, on my phone in the dark basement, no electricity, doing check ins. I was like, "It’s fine, it’s fine. I got this."
I swear to God I really did that.
ACACIA:
I was like, do you need help? You’re like, It’s fine. Everything’s fine. No, we're good.
MANDERS:
We had no power for like, 12 days. I was like, "It’s fine. It’s fine. I’ll do my check-ins elsewhere."
ABBEY:
Oh, my God. It was probably a good distraction!
MANDERS:
Honestly, it actually kind of was because I was so bored. Oh, my gosh, I loved it.
RYAN:
Thanks, climate change!
MANDERS:
Yeah.
[laughter]
I feel like when you get to know your clients also on a deeper level, it’s really helpful to understand what style of coaching
works for them.
ACACIA:
Yes.
MANDERS:
Because, you know, it’s kind of like online dating, as weird as that is... The way I just said that sounded like "uncut gems"
[impersonating Julia Fox's pronunciation of "gems" as "jams" -it was a viral Tik Tok trend] But it really is like online dating
because in the beginning, you’re kind of like trying to figure out, like, what might work for-
[laughing] that really sent Acacia into orbit!
ABBEY:
She’s not coming back from that.
MANDERS:
I hope people that are listening to this know what I just said, because otherwise they’re not going to think that was funny. I
hope yeah.
I think it’s a really good way for us to figure out what style of coaching works and like what she feels comfortable telling
me, right? Because like some people, I know that like they don’t really like profanity. You know, a lot of us on the podcast,
we always use profanity. It’s definitely just something that for a lot of us it's just part of our personality.
But some people, you know, when we talk to them and for me in particular, I have Thrive clients mostly. So I do Zoom calls
with them in the beginning and I kind of get to know them a little bit more and like see, feel them out, and it’s like building
that relationship really helps me get to be the best coach I can be for you and figure out like, OK, do they need like just
emotional support right now? Do they need me to be like Tough Love Manders? What do they need from me? So I like that
personally, building that relationship, because it really helps. I think just overall the experience better on both ends.
ACACIA:
Oh, absolutely.
ABBEY:
So, so as from a client perspective and for the other clients that are listening, what would you say would be a good way to
say, "Hey, I need more tough love?" Like just say it? Or what if you have no idea like how to be coach because you’ve never
been coached before? How do you have that conversation? Besides just saying that, I know, but like what else would be
helpful for clients to say to coaches, an "I don’t know what I need," type thing.
MANDERS:
Yeah. I mean, I think saying that too is helpful. You to have a little bit of self awareness to be able to say, "I don’t know
what type of coaching I need," but I think my job is to kind of figure out what I think would be the best for you given your
personality type, the way that you’re sending check ins to me, because I have some clients who are just very much nutrition
only. Like, we do not talk about anything other than their nutrition. It's very black and white is to the point of one sentence
answers. And I know that they’re not going to want me to talk about their mental health or their emotions about certain
things. Like I just know that based on how they’re giving it to me.
So sometimes the answer to that is that you don’t even really need to say it. I think it’s our job as coaches to kind of analyze
your client type, if you will. Like, OK, this person is like, we’re on a train tracks and we’re just we’re just going we’re not
veering off. We’re not talking about anything else and that’s fine. Or, you know, you have things on the opposite end of the
spectrum where they might be really telling you a lot. And then that’s my job to kind of like guide them back into what we
should be focusing on.
And, that’s kind of how to do tough love without like, them asking for tough love. Sometimes they do it without knowing
that they’re doing it. Unless you just really want to do that. And I do have some clients are like, Manders tell me, What is
up Kyle?" They’re like, "Just lay it on me," you know? Like they just say that and I’m like, OK, but say it without saying it, I
guess. Chickens.
ACACIA:
Yeah, yeah. Well, and also, if something isn’t working in a sense of of how we as coaches relay something to you and if we
are coming off too blunt, just say that. Be like, "Hey, like I need more positive reinforcement. This communication style isn’t
working for me." And, you know, you’re not in contract to work with a specific coach either. And so sometimes changing that
is the right move, sometimes just opening up further communication with your coach that you’re already working with is the
right move. Yeah. And there’s no one size fits all... despite clothing companies thinking that there is.
ABBEY:
You know, there's pregnancy, one size fits all stuff. And I’m like, "How is that possible?" HOW?
RYAN:
We could be like so many other online coaching things and just make the clients exist to serve our own egos. See how that
works out.
MANDERS:
Abbey, is there anything that you feel like other clients should know, or anything that you feel has helped you as a client
with BIN? Is there anything that you would want to tell other clients, either potential clients or current clients, how to make
the most out of their coaching with BIN from a client perspective?
ABBEY:
I think for one, is that it’s for all different phases of life and you know, I always knew nutrition was important before you
got pregnant, but I never really thought about it during pregnancy. So I think even if you’re done training for something, and
you’re moving into just training not for an event or something, it’s really something for all phases of life.
And I think I really like the app and the data aspect. I like seeing data and it’s really helpful to see where that kind of goes
and what kind of changes are happening. I think the other piece is the check-ins and just really being honest with them. And
that the person on the other end is going to be supportive now and they’re not going to smack your hand and tell you you’re
a bad person for eating chocolate cake or whatever. So I think like being honest and finding what fits for you and maybe
even being a little vulnerable with your check-ins. It might feel uncomfortable at first, but give it a try.
MANDERS:
Mm hmm.
ABBEY:
Which is not easy. Even me as a therapist. I encourage all my clients to be vulnerable, and I'm like, "Ew I don't want to do
that!"
MANDERS:
Yeah, same.
ABBEY:
But it’s so it’s so worth it, you know? You just have to kind of pull the Band-Aid off. And the best thing is this is a check-in
through an app. So it’s not like you’re sitting in the room and having to be vulnerable. It makes it a little easier, I think.
ACACIA:
It does.
And people who really struggle with vulnerability, it can be kind of like a bridge to that. And, you know, there are things that
we don’t necessarily need to know-
ABBEY:
You probably get too much info.
ACACIA:
Like there’s that fine balance of that, but having that communication and starting there is huge.
And for me personally as a coach, I would rather get a paragraph than one single sentence that just says, "Fine!"
MANDERS:
Same
ACACIA:
But if that’s the style of coaching you personally enjoy and what works for you, amazing, great, fantastic. Happy for you.
Amazing.
00;37;20;23 - 00;37;49;20
RYAN:
Well, yeah. There’s the, "I’m fine, I’m good." And then there’s the other end where we have to gently remind people that they
should probably talk to an appropriate professional because a lot of their problems are not related to nutrition. Sometimes
the nutrition aspect, that’s one of the ways that gets expressed. But that's beyond our purview.
MANDERS:
Yeah. Yeah, definitely.
RYAN:
It’s fun.
ACACIA:
We’re all just trying to do the best we can.
MANDERS:
THRIVINGGGG.
RYAN:
What drew you to Black Iron to begin with?
ABBEY:
So I was following Krissy a gazillion years ago when she had- what was the company before? What was the name of this?
ACACIA:
Doughnuts and Deadlifts
ABBEY:
So back then, I don’t know how I ever stumbled upon that. And then I just kind of followed around and was like, "Oh, she’s
just a cool bad ass" And I was doing CrossFit at the time, I think is when I stumbled upon her and like just kind of followed
and then saw her progression of things.
And I was like, that just kind of feels right after doing so many other nutrition things. And then, I did some research and
yeah, I just was like, that just seems like a good fit. And I really liked what I saw with the different ways of tracking and
again, for me, it’s the data. Like, OK, that looks cool. And just felt like a welcoming kind of community too. And again, seeing
all the different coaches come from so many different backgrounds and knowing that you guys work together with each
other.
It’s not like you guys never talk, where some other programs, you go through it and none of the coaches talk. So at least you
guys are educating yourselves and talking. And again, the coaches from all different backgrounds, you know, different types
of athletics, different types of histories, different ages, you know, it’s nice to see that variety.
RYAN:
Yeah.
ACACIA:
We have a lot. We have a decently diverse group now. There’s like 40 of us now, which is freaking mindblowing.
RYAN:
Yeah.
MANDERS:
So crazy. I literally forgot that there’s that many of us. I really do. I’m like, Oh my gosh, so many coaches. Wow. Look at us
go!
ACACIA:
And trying to thrive.
RYAN:
I personally I really like the little Slack channel that we have for all the coaches and I think that has been a good way that
we’ve built up the culture of Black Iron the way that we’ve all wanted. Because we’ve had people come and go, you know,
they don’t quite fit. It is what it is. The people who've stuck around stick around for a reason. And it’s cool that everybody
contributes to the culture of the place. And we’re kind of just carving out this little niche where we're kind of fighting
against the tide. We’re not all this group of cool kids, we're kind of nerdy, we’re kind of all over the place, and it’s fun, you
know? We’re not like, "Oh, you need to listen to me because I’m a celebrity," kind of thing that a lot of, at least, Instagram
fitness culture is.
ACACIA:
Where, "I have abs, so therefore I’m a good coach."
MANDERS:
I hate that.
RYAN:
And, you know, "There are multiple ways to do things, but my way is the only correct way."
MANDERS:
I also hate that. I always tell people when they say stuff about my abs, I'm like, "You know, most that’s just genetics, right?"
I mean, I did a little bit, I got stomach problems but it's mostly genetic. Like, don’t give me that much credit. I think people
need to be more honest about stuff like that in the entire fitness industry. But that is another topic for another day, my
friend.
ABBEY:
Like, yeah, but I think in seeing the diversity of coaches, you can know that you can feel comfortable because there is some-
one in Black Iron that would be a good fit for you maybe.
MANDERS:
Yeah.
ACACIA:
Definitely.
RYAN:
We have coaches that spend just about two decades, right? Mid-20s to mid-40s.
ACACIA:
As far as how long they’ve been working?
RYAN:
In their ages.
00;42;36;16 - 00;42;38;15
RYAN:
Mid-20s to 40s
MANDERS:
And all types of backgrounds, that’s really cool, too.
RYAN:
Yeah.
ACACIA:
Yeah, I like it.
RYAN:
Anyway, we can stop tooting our own horns now.
MANDERS:
Yeah, right. Go sign up for Black Iron guys, we're so great!
ABBEY:
Well, I mean, you guys do like each other.
MANDERS:
We do-
ACACIA:
I don't, I hate everyone.
ABBEY:
I mean I follow several of the coaches and I see like, "Oh, look, they’re supporting each other. They really do like each other."
MANDERS:
Yeah, we do have a good environment.
ACACIA:
That’s the thing about it is, we’re not perfect. No freaking way, in no universe are we perfect.
RYAN:
Hey, speak for yourself.
[laughter]
ACACIA:
My dogs might be. l I tell them they are. I will admit that, you know, I just did! I know that I’ve made mistakes and that we’ve
made mistakes. But the thing about it is, we’re trying to navigate this with our clients, and, as coaches, work with them and
not clash or work against each other and stuff like that. Any time I suggest something, it’s because I’m thinking how can I
help this person the best way I know how to, you know?
MANDERS:
I feel like that’s good to get a good perspective from the client and, you know, our experience and everything. I think it’s
good for people to see that. You’ll inspire other people to join the podcast with us, you know?
RYAN:
Do it!
ACACIA
[calling her dog] Harley, come here. Come say hi.
MANDERS:
She said, "Nahhh."
ABBEY:
Is it a requirement to have dogs to work at Black Iron?
RYAN:
Not a requirement, but a bonus.
MANDERS:
I love it when my clients send me dog pics. It’s so fun.
RYAN:
Abbey, do you have any last thoughts?
ABBEY:
I don’t. This is great. Thank you guys for having me.
MANDERS:
Thanks so much for joining us.
ACACIA:
Thank you for being here. I’m so glad you emailed me when I read that email, I sent it to Manders-
MANDERS:
I was so happy! I was like "Oh, that's so nice!"
ABBEY:
I mean, it’s just it’s been amazing and it’s been so helpful. I can’t imagine these past few months or whatever not having
that extra support and knowing what to do.
And just having, you know, that support person and someone to check in with. I think be accountability is really important.
And what I thought pregnancy would be like is not at all. But it kind of is at some points. And it’s really interesting but it’s
also, like I said, it’s nice to have someone where I’m like, "I can't eat chicken again, what should I have?" and someone else
to give me ideas, and various things like, "Yeah, it’s OK if you’re really hungry right now."
ACACIA:
OK, so what’s a piece of advice that you could offer to other clients that are older and pregnant for the first time?
ABBEY:
Well, so just older clients in general, it’s never too late to start looking at your nutrition. I keep trying to talk my mom into
doing it. I think it would be great, I don’t know. But yeah, you can start at any time. And if you’re older and trying to get
pregnant, the research says is even if you’re younger and trying to get pregnant, the nutrition is really important.
A lot of certain clinics will really encourage that. Some clinics will prescribe very specific diets so I think you want to check-
in with yourself about that. And I’m not a doctor, but you kind of want to look at that and weigh those options. But I think
having someone support you during pregnancy, that’s not your partner, or not your friends, is really helpful because you’re
going to get feedback from people telling you don’t eat that, or you’re eating too much, or not eating enough.
And it’s just nice to have someone who really knows to give you that feedback. And I think a little bit, they care about you,
but they’re removed from your life so they can kind of say like, "Yo, knock it off." Like instead of eating Oreos every night,
try and have something and then maybe have the Oreos or something, you know.
ACACIA
Have some raspberries and some Oreos.
ABBEY:
Right! Perfect!
Of all the snack foods I like, I'm like, "Ooh, Oreos. Haven’t had them for a while!"
ACACIA:
I saw this video, it was probably on Tik Tok because, of course. But it was this guy just sitting on his couch and he had some
type of like cookie sandwich thing, and he was taking a butter knife and putting it into peanut butter. But he would have the
top off the cookie, and so what he would do is he would take his knife, put it in the peanut butter jar, put it in the cookie, put
the top on the cookie, and then just feed it into his mouth so he didn't have to touch the peanut butter or anything.
MANDERS:
Genius.
ACACIA:
And I was like, you know what you're doing with your snacks, sir. Anyways.
RYAN:
All right. We'll say goodbye.
ABBEY:
All right. Bye, guys. Thank you. Bye.
00;49;10;29 - 00;49;14;17
RYAN:
Thank you so much for joining us. Come back after you give birth! Give us an update about how that all went.
ABBEY:
Yeah, yeah!
MANDERS:
I can’t wait for that.
ACACIA:
You and Coach Joyce- You said you’re 14 weeks?
ABBEY:
I’m 16 weeks. So I’m due August 24th.
ACACIA:
Yeah, I think Joyce is due in August as well. Oh, July. July. So, close. Yeah.
ABBEY:
Close enough. Yeah.
RYAN:
Yeah.
ABBEY:
So it’ll be exciting.
RYAN:
Yeah. Well, until then, thank you. And we’ll chat soon!
ABBEY:
All right. Bye, guys.
MANDERS & ACACIA:
Bye!